In the latest edition of CMP TV, the mortgage industry's approach to diversity, equity and inclusion is under the spotlight. Join Gita Cartwright, business development manager, and Leanne Conroy, regional director of sales, both of MCAN Home, as they examine the impact of mentorship, the common challenges that women face, the importance of sharing stories and the steps that organizations need to take.
[00:00:00] Fergal McAlinden: Joining us on another edition of CMPTV, I'm Fergal McAlinden, News Editor at Canadian Mortgage Professional. As you probably know, we recently hosted our Women in Mortgage Summit in Toronto, bringing together women from across Canada's mortgage industry to discuss common challenges faced and some of the best ways to overcome those obstacles and grow their business. Taking part in today's proceedings were two well-known executives from MCAN Home. We have Leanne Conroy, the company's Regional Sales Director, who acted as Chairperson for the day, and Gita Cartwright, Business Development Manager for the GTA West and Atlantic Canada, who featured on the Enabling Growth through Mentoring panel. We're very pleased to welcome both Leanne and Gita today to share their thoughts on the day and the current landscape when it comes to quality and representation in the mortgage industry. Leanne and Gita, thanks to you both for joining us today. First of all, how's everything going with you?
[00:00:53] Leanne Conroy: Great, thanks for having us. It's good timing.
[00:01:06] Gita Cartwright: It is good timing. Absolutely.
[00:01:06] Fergal McAlinden: So maybe just to get started, I want to, as you mentioned, we had this on very recently. Can we discuss maybe the significance of fostering a supportive community within the mortgage industry, especially in empowering women professionals? I mean, how does MCAN Home specifically approach community building and mentorship for women in mortgage?
[00:01:28] Leanne Conroy: I think that definitely in our industry, we over-index for men and especially in leadership roles. And so having intentional meetings, intentional events, such as the Women in Mortgage Summit, is the first step to fostering this inclusivity for women.
[00:01:48] Gita Cartwright: On that note, I do want to say a huge congratulations to Leanne for chairing the Women in Mortgage Summit. Certainly not an easy task. And it was brilliantly done. So, thank you for that. I know that, like I said, the feedback was incredible, and it was a wonderful day. I think one of the things that I got from that day as well is that we need to be present for our younger generation that's coming into this industry. We talked a lot about the gaps in some of the folks that are probably going to be exiting this industry and not enough succession planning for those that are coming in. So Leanne and I both, we sort of fell into this industry, we didn't intentionally come in and I think what we want to take is folks that are falling into it or coming into this industry by default and making it their destination so we have to make ourselves more present, share our stories, the lessons that we've learned, many for Leanne and I the hard way and be open to making this a place that people want to come in and spend their career. I will say one thing you talked about how perhaps how MCAN is doing this. And we are really a leader in a lot of ways. And I will say that we've been recognized, I think it's the last two to three years as a great place to work for women. So, we don't just, we walk the walk as well.
[00:03:15] Leanne Conroy: And yeah, thank you, Gita, for the kind words. You did an amazing job yourself on the panel. And we talk about falling into the role. And if you kind of... If you frame that around the idea of having more women and a younger generation, I will say, you know, looking around the room at the summit, there were quite a few younger women. We did encourage our summer students. So, if you want to talk young, you know, our summer students that are working at MCAN who are obviously female to come to the summit and really trying to impress upon them that this. This is a great industry and there's so much opportunity and to really push them to listen to all of the stories that were being shared. And my daughter was there. So that was exciting.
[00:04:07] Fergal McAlinden: Yeah, actually, congratulations. We had fantastic feedback, as you mentioned, for both the panel that you were on, Gita and Leanne, for your excellent job as the chairperson. Uh we're already looking forward to next year and Leanne I know you had a call to action at the end of uh the summit as well which kind of got everybody in the mood for next year so um yeah already really anticipating that um so I just wanted to ask you as well I mean we heard plenty of sort of uh you know anecdotes last week about the journeys that women are making in the industry and one of the main things that stood out from those was the impact of mentorship on board and that is I'm wondering if you could both share a personal or a professional anecdote highlighting the impact that mentorship has had on your career journey or even the career trajectory of a colleague, especially when it comes to overcoming challenges that are unique to women.
[00:05:01] Leanne Conroy: In thinking about this in my personal journey, the first thing that came to mind was the only time in my career that I was actually formally mentored or formally put into a mentorship program. It was forced and the individual was chosen for me. And I kind of forgot about this even over the last week when we've been discussing it, but I left the company. And there goes my mentorship. It just fizzled. And so, for me, mentorship can come, obviously, we know all the terms. It can come in many different forms. You've got coaching. You can call it sponsorship. You can call it champions. So, I think for me, it's always been about kind of having a coach and a champion and not something formal, even though it's important, I think, for individuals to be formerly mentored. However, um it doesn't have to be super structured and forced it has to be organic, and it has to be with someone that you choose rather than someone that's chosen for you.
[00:06:13] Gita Cartwright: Yeah, we talked about that, and Kiki made a great point about mentorship as well-being it could be very informal you don't know that someone's watching you could be mentoring without knowing it so that's a great point. I will maybe add from my perspective, I've had the benefit of having a couple of very formal mentors, both male and female, both with very different perspectives, different types of support. But of course, I was in a different place in my career as well. So that's expected, I think. But to Leanne's point, a good mentor relationship, it's got to be impactful. It's got to be purposeful. It has to be intentional. Because it can help you both professionally and personally. For myself, it gave me some confidence. Personally, it increased my business acumen. I was introduced to new opportunities, maybe exposure to different parts of the business that maybe led my career in a different path. Or if the career that I was in helped me pivot into something within the role that I was in. So, I believe that a good mentorship relationship is extremely important.
[00:07:30] Leanne Conroy: And I think to kind of tie it back to when we chatted about the younger generation, it's important to introduce these ideas to them. They don't, you know, even when I circled back to some of the younger people that attended, they don't think of these. You got enough on your plate, you know, when you're trying to navigate your career or what you're going to do. So, you don't necessarily think of this. And that's our that's our role, is to help introduce all these different ideas and options.
[00:08:01] Gita Cartwright: Well said, absolutely.
[00:08:04] Fergal McAlinden: For sure. You know it's interesting as well and Leanne we kind of talked about this during our interview last week at the summit you know the industry has come very far and we know that uh it you know it maybe was once perceived as a very male-dominated uh industry and sector but it's not really that way anymore but there are still obviously a lot of challenges and as I said a long way to go. I'm wondering what some of the common challenges faced by women are in the mortgage industry that you guys can identify. And if you have any thoughts on how companies like MCAN Home are proactively addressing and kind of mitigating those challenges.
[00:08:37] Leanne Conroy: I mean, we chatted about the challenges of women in general and managing their time and their families. And I think that, I mean, MCAN did it wonderfully during COVID. in that they're, you know, completely open to the hybrid work model, and they still are. So, we hung on to that because we realized that it helps men too, you know, because men are parents too, but it helps individuals, people that are managing a lot of things in their lives. And so MCAN is still hung on to being able to, you know, to be there and to support parents while they are still managing their roles and their jobs. If you look back to the days where we had to jump in our car and we had to drive to where we were going and then come home and pick up the kids and do all of that, then you really didn't have the ability to go put them to bed and head back to work. So now you do manage your time, and you need to have some kind of harmony in the way that you work, but you are able to, to spend some special moments, but then, you know, just manage your time differently because of this wonderful technology that we have.
[00:10:05] Gita Cartwright: Yeah, we also talked about, and just on that note, we talked about making events more family or female friendly in terms of lots of times they're nighttime events, they're weekend events, they occur during times where this is now I'm compromising my work-life balance for some of these industry events. And I think that's part of it as well. We need to be better at recognizing that y'all have lives outside of this industry. And although it's convenient sometimes for organizers to do things at night, we need to be mindful of the struggles and some of the juggling act that a lot of folks are doing, predominantly women, I would say. And if I could also add that we talk a lot about the accomplishments of the women in this industry. There are so many. They're volunteers. They work so hard, but we need to do it very intentionally and with purpose. And I think that goes also for any underrepresented group that might be out there. And Leanne, you mentioned men. It could be anyone who's underrepresented in this industry. We have to promote diversity. We have to have cultures with inclusion. Maybe the events that we're doing, we need to have more diversity in terms of all these different walks of life and different experiences that we can bring to the table.
[00:11:30] Leanne Conroy: Yeah, I feel like, you know, intentional is a word that we're using quite a bit. Yeah. Unintentionally, but we are. And so, you know, one thing that we didn't actually chat about, but I thought, what about, you know, we work for large corporations. So MCAN, obviously, we have these intentional events. We have the intentional meetings and the trainings and everything. But what about the, what about the... The companies that are smaller and companies that don't maybe have a third party HR department and third party this, you know, it is it is the larger events that are put on by us and put on by, you know, CMP that allow some of these other individuals to learn about what we are learning with and listen and share their stories.
[00:12:21] Fergal McAlinden: Sorry, you get to go ahead.
[00:12:23] Gita Cartwright: No, no, I was just agreeing. I think that’s what this industry is about. It's about sharing our industry knowledge. And for those that might not have the same access, and it's about consistent messaging and wanting us to all be on the same page. So that's a great point.
[00:12:38] Fergal McAlinden: So how do you believe that sharing stories and experiences, especially those related to navigating obstacles and achieving success, can contribute to the professional development and empowerment of women in the mortgage industry? And maybe you can provide examples of how storytelling is being important to women empowerment.
[00:12:56] Gita Cartwright: Maybe I'll start on this one, if you don't mind. I think the Women's Summit was a perfect example of the power of storytelling. There was so much vulnerability, so many sharing of painful, successful, different types of stories. And I guarantee you, each and every attendant there resonated with something. There was a story that impacted them. They felt it. They didn't feel alone. And I think that was the purpose of that. It was a room full of people that were supporting one another. We do that a lot at MCAN as well. We invest a lot in a lot of time and resources into building an award-winning culture. And I'd want to mention this, Leanne, because we did some leadership training last week. And maybe you could tie that in as well, because you were able to be a part of that.
[00:13:47] Leanne Conroy: Well, you used the word vulnerable, which was part of the training, and I think that, you know, years ago, so again, women, men, whomever, years ago, it wasn't proper to be vulnerable because it showed, you know, a different side that was passe, I guess, is that the correct word? But now, a big part of leadership training is that it's okay to be caring, and it's okay to be vulnerable. Um, and that's what, uh, you know, we're, those are the stories that we're telling, whether we're telling the story or we're, we're listening and we're listening to the stories of others, um, without judgment. So, you know, it's about to just being uncomfortable and getting comfortable with being uncomfortable.
[00:14:42] Gita Cartwright: I think that was part of two. It was some of the messaging was do something that scares you a little bit every day or in your career. And I think a lot of the...
[00:14:51] Leanne Conroy: That was my message.
[00:14:53] Gita Cartwright: That was, oh, see, it was, I remembered it. But it resonates with me. And I felt like that. We do. We need to push ourselves. And I think part of that storytelling, because you are showing your secret sauce, you're showing a little bit about your vulnerability and you're sharing with a very large group of women and some men that were in the audience, some of these things. But I do think that's what helps people feel connected to one another and figure out they can figure out how to benefit from that and learn from it.
[00:15:23] Leanne Conroy: Learn from mistakes. Learn from my mistakes.
[00:15:27] Gita Cartwright: Exactly. I thought it was brilliant.
[00:15:30] Fergal McAlinden: Yeah hey great stuff and maybe just before I let you both go I’m wondering from your perspective what actionable steps the industry can take or organizations can take to bring about a more inclusive equitable environment for women in mortgage, I mean we always hear about you know uh words and the importance of words but how important it is also to kind of walk the talk, so how can organizations do that ensure that women's voices are heard and that their contributions are both recognized and valued as well.
[00:16:02] Leanne Conroy: I think, you know, having these events, because I said earlier, there are a lot of mortgage brokerages that are small. You know, we need the industry as a whole to be communicating all the time. So, these things aren't missed. So, their newcomers have the opportunity to attend these events and learn. And I think that, again, MCAN is very good at having Oh my gosh, I keep using the word intentional. It's like I have to get that out of my head. But having these events, whether they're small, whether it's training, or whether it's off-site training, or small, medium, large, and then to keep inviting more and more people. Obviously, social media is like the way to ring the bell and everybody gets involved, but we just have to keep getting the word out and encouraging more and more people. And to tie it back to our younger generation, encourage them to join.
[00:17:00] Gita Cartwright: A couple of really good points that each of you made. So, it's critical that we show and not just tell what we're doing as an organization. And that's the only way we're going to be committed to making change. So, Leanne's absolutely right. From an MCAN perspective, we do. We schedule a lot of time for diversity and inclusion training. We also have terrific recognition program that is, we can celebrate all wins, big and small. Again, without saying intentional, I'll use a different word, maybe authentic. These things have to be authentic for them to be successful. And I think we do a very good job of that. And that resonates outside of our organization.
[00:17:43] Leanne Conroy: Yeah, it actually to be a fly on the wall, and especially when we did most recently, unconscious bias, to be a fly on the wall in that room. It's incredible, the conversations, the dialogues that happen, the vulnerability, the things that you learn. And you see that people start being more comfortable sharing things that you would never have shared 20 years ago. So, it's quite amazing.
[00:18:10] Gita Cartwright: Wouldn't it be nice if we could all do that? We were at another women's event a few weeks ago, Leanne and I, and we all said that. Would you imagine if somebody could be a fly on the wall and hear some of these stories, it would be so impactful. Yeah, I just agree.
[00:18:29] Fergal McAlinden: All right. Well, we will leave things there for today. But Leanne and Geeta, really great to hear your thoughts of both your own personal stories and how MCAN Home is pushing ahead to address some of the challenges being faced in the industry. Thanks to you both. Congratulations again on your participation in the summit. Really enjoyed the chat and I'm sure we'll talk very soon.
[00:18:46] Gita Cartwright: Thank you.
[00:18:47] Leanne Conroy: Thank you so much. Nice to see you, Fergal.
[00:18:51] Fergal McAlinden: That just about it for today's edition of CMPTV. My thanks once again to Leanne Conroy and Gita Cartwright of the MCAN Home for joining us. Thanks to you for watching and we will see you next time.
