Top industry professionals reflect on the sector's progress
“Throughout my career, I’ve always had some level of apprehension about being open,” shared Steve Seal (pictured left), who has worked for decades in the mortgage business and just happens to be a gay man. “I should stress that this was underpinned by an inherent fear of how people might react rather than any negative experience. I have always found everyone who knew about my sexuality to be very welcoming, but that doesn’t mean that I have always felt comfortable to be open and honest.”
There’s no doubting Seal’s pedigree – he’s a highly experienced, former CEO and board director within the industry, working variously for Barclays, Bluestone Mortgages, UK Finance, OneSavings Bank, Virgin Money, Chelsea Building Society, and the IMLA. And, while he’s taking some time away from the business currently, his experience over many decades gives him an excellent perspective on how things have changed for mortgage professionals from the LBGTQ+ community, as the industry marks Pride Month.
“I can’t recall any bad experiences, more a general feeling of having to live in the shadows constantly judging how open to be and with whom,” Seal told Mortgage Introducer. “That has quite an emotional impact and I am delighted that I feel so much freer and able to be open now. There is no doubt that things have improved, mirroring wider acceptance and tolerance in society. The LGBTQ+ community has a stronger presence than ever before and I certainly felt a huge difference between recent years and when I started in the industry back in the 1990s. I remember spending many years using non gender specific pronouns for my partner in conversations to avoid people knowing I was gay, and feeling as though I had to lie when people would see my wedding ring and presume I had a wife.”
The industry has long had a reputation for being a bit of a ‘boys club’, and certainly male dominated, so to what extent has this hindered progress, in Seal’s view? “The reputation is a fair one, and it’s fantastic to see the industry demographic changing to such a big extent,” he said. “It genuinely feels like those ‘bad old days’ are behind us. It did, however, contribute to the fear I had about being open in those earlier days of my career. I would typically wait until I had established a relationship with people before doing the ‘big reveal’, and in many cases would avoid the subject altogether if my gut told me it was the safest option for me. I guess that is a mixed bag - largely positive for me, but some way off from an environment where I felt I could be fully open at all times.”
Diversity programmes across the industry have made a huge difference, as have strong LGBTQ+ role models in the lender and regulator community, Seal suggests. “Today, the industry is a great place for members of the LGBTQ+ community to work and flourish,” he said. “The direction of travel is positive, but it’s starting to feel fragile. The LGBTQ+ community is starting to come under attack again, especially with strong voices in the US objecting to anything relating to DE&I - not just from an LGBTQ+ perspective - and Reform banging a similar drug on home soil. It is crucial that the industry, and society at large, protect the strong progress we’ve made and continue to champion the value of diversity in all respects.”
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How important is it for the mortgage industry to celebrate Pride in 2025?
There is debate about the value of Pride, of course, in what many people consider a much more accepting world now. Does Seal agree with criticism that some of the major financial services institutions are so-called ‘rainbow washing’ their brands, simply for their own reputational benefit? “I think Pride remains a key way of celebrating diversity, freedom and love,” he said. “It’s hard to judge the extent of ‘rainbow washing’ without knowing how integrated the Pride values are inside those businesses, but this is all a journey and any business openly showing their support is welcome.”
William Lloyd-Hayward (pictured right), group COO at Brightstar Financial and Sirius Finance, believes that the industry has made huge progress over recent years to become a more welcoming sector to all. “Especially those who maybe didn’t always fit the ‘white and male’ stereotype,” said Lloyd-Hayward. “However, as I reflect on when I joined the industry and how I felt, the same insecurity of not knowing how you fit in, where and who the people are who are like me, that I can see as role models, people to talk to, remains a challenge. So, I feel that we need to continue to build on that. Progress never stops.”
Lloyd-Hayward believes the advancement of the network Women In Banking & Finance’s agenda and the diversity and inclusion report from the Association of Mortgage Intermediaries (AMI) in 2021 have helped push the need for attitudes to change. “The AMI report was one of those moments where, for many, it was a sit and think, before a stand up and act moment,” he said. “I believe many businesses looked at what they could do for their staff and individuals. All had the chance, with many taking it, to reflect on their own actions, own challenges and also the chance to be an ally.”
A need for allies – those who are not from the LGBTQ+ community, but whom show support in tackling bad practice and behaviour - is critical, according to Lloyd-Hayward. “I think one of the most obvious experiences we have all seen is how across all the main trade publications, in pre-event communication and at events, the reminder to all attendees to ensure they make the event a safe and welcoming space for all guests has been brilliant to see,” he said, “Four years on from that AMI report, we are seeing people stick to the lessons gained and pushing this positive agenda.
“The less positive experiences include people still asking me how long I’ve known my wife, or how long we’ve been married, and the uncomfortable face they have to pull when I let them know I’ve been married to my husband for nearly four years. Top tip - if you want to ask the question, just ask how long someone has been with their ‘partner’ – it makes things a lot more simple.”
Lloyd-Hayward, while acknowledging the difficulties of a more male-dominated profession in the past, is keen to look the future. “We can and must learn from that, but importantly build the diverse industry that we want,” he said. This includes he suggests, men advocating for recruiting more women, encouraging new young talent into the industry and supporting the recruitment and advancement of those from LGBTQ+ and ethnic minority communities.
“We need more allies, more people willing to share the burden of calling out homophobic behaviour and language, standing up against any form of racism, sexism or discrimination,” said Lloyd-Hayward. “It means so much to see it happen and know that you are supported. We need to champion difference as the strength that it brings to our businesses and sector. When the team we assemble and work with better represents the customers we serve, we can serve our customers better. We need to be bold as well about reaching out to support others who might be struggling, especially with mental health, many who suffer in silence. So, if in doubt, ask, reach out, make the call, offer someone a coffee and be that friendly face they might need.”
Lloyd-Hayward points out that there are still some 65 countries where it remains criminal to be LGBTQ+, and that 54 members of the United Nations still oppose the Human Rights Council 2011 resolution on universal rights for LGBTQ+ people. “There is plenty of protest still to be done,” he said. “I find it difficult to stomach where brands might change their logo to rainbow-coloured here or in Europe but seemingly lose the values behind that change in other parts of the world. It is more important that businesses reflect the values they stand by and culture they nurture and how that supports people who are LGBTQ+, but if they change their brand and logo for a while as well to promote pride and support charitable efforts in the process, then great - let the rainbow grow!”
